Today, we're excited to share our latest Safety Heroes episode with Ergin Akbas.
With over a decade at AVANGRID managing EHS systems across wind farms, solar projects, and critical infrastructure serving 3 million customers, Ergin has learned one truth: systems only work when they're built WITH the people who use them, not FOR them.
He shares stories about achieving zero findings during ISO audits, why his 6-year-old thinks he "makes sure people don't get zapped," and how Learning Teams are transforming incident investigations from blame to real improvement. If you're trying to build safety systems that frontline teams will actually adopt, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom.
Mousa Yassin (00:33.474)
Ergin, how are you, my friend? It’s super good to meet you finally. We’ve been connected for a while now through Gökhan and Evren, so I’m excited to have you today.
Ergin Akbaş (00:57.694)
Yes, Mousa—good morning and good afternoon! I wish we were in the same time zone. I’ve been an avid listener of Safety Heroes. You’ve had an amazing lineup—Malcolm, Bridget, Gökhan… great content, very authentic. Thank you for setting the stage for people to share their stories. I’m really excited about today.
Mousa Yassin (01:36.514)
I appreciate that feedback. It’s been a passion project and helped me build strong relationships in the industry. You’ve been in EHS for a long time and now hold a senior role at Avangrid in the US. Could you share your background and journey into the field of safety?
Ergin Akbaş (02:12.18)
Absolutely. I studied civil engineering, where we learned that structures—such as bridges and buildings—must protect people and the environment. Thirteen years ago, I joined Avangrid to help build one of Massachusetts’s largest wind farms. That’s where I realized safety is integral to everything. Over the last decade, I’ve helped develop our Quality Management System and expanded our Environmental Management System since 2014. Today, Avangrid serves over 3 million customers across 26 states, employing approximately 8,000 people. We need structured frameworks to manage all their safety and environmental risks.
Risks in Renewable & Network Operations
Mousa Yassin (04:34.32)
When you say “energy transition,” what does a typical project look like—and what risks are you navigating?
Ergin Akbaş (04:34.324)
Yeah. So, again, Avant Grid is the US company of the Iberdrola Group. So, Iberdrola Group is one of the largest energy companies in the world. In the US, we have two distinct parts of the business. One side is the renewable side, where we develop and operate renewable energy sources.
On the renewables side, we build and operate wind and solar farms—including one of the first offshore wind farms in the Northeast. Construction risks include:
Logistics: Transporting huge turbine components.
Foundations: Excavation, blasting, concrete pours.
Heavy lifts: Crane operations in varying terrain and wind conditions.
Once operational, technicians:
Climb turbines: Fall-from-height hazards.
Work in nacelles and hubs: Electrical and ergonomic risks.
On the network side, we have eight operating companies responsible for the transmission and distribution of gas and electricity in four states. Our 3 million+ customers rely on us for:
High-voltage line work
Gas distribution
Hydro operations
Electricity, heights, and mechanical work all pose significant risks in our industry.
Defining an EHS Management System
Mousa Yassin (07:19.478)
Your specialization is EHS management systems. What does that truly entail?
Ergin Akbaş (07:37.898)
Yes, that's accurate. It’s a journey, not a destination—far more than software. One of the things I have to do continuously is to remind myself that it's not a magic machine. The definition of a system is when many of the different components work together. A robust system weaves together governance, processes, people, and technology. We align with ISO 14001 (Environmental) and ISO 45001 (Health & Safety), starting with:
Context & Scope: Defining system objectives and stakeholders.
Leadership Commitment: Securing executive and worker buy-in.
Planning (PDCA): Plan-Do-Check-Act cycle for continuous improvement.
Consultation and Participation: Engaging the Workforce in Design.
Operational Control & Change Management: Embedding controls and managing change methodically.
Compliance Evaluation & Audits: Monitoring performance against standards.
Incident Review & Improvement: Learning from every event to refine the system.
Mousa Yassin (12:14.56)
When it comes to management systems, I find it fascinating because there are numerous aspects to consider. It's a big project. You're implementing systems that're not only there for audit, as you mentioned, and continuous improvement, but also meant to add value and improve operational efficiency, as well as enhance the work activities of frontline workers. If you take a step back and share, you'll realize you're deep in that world.
You know, you're using different systems. You've gone through different journeys. What do you consider the biggest challenges currently facing EHS management systems? You know, what do you wish, especially with what's happening with AI and what's happening with, you know, the simplification of how products are built and the engagement with the human on the front line, especially in a space like renewables, where you have small pods of people doing challenging work.
What's just as philosophical as you can be if you were to leave the weeds and think about, you know, a strategic view of what you feel needs to change or happen differently in the world of EHS management system, what comes to mind?
Ergin Akbaş (13:59.478)
Our challenge as EHS leaders is convincing both the workforce and leadership that EHS isn’t a siloed department. We exist to make work safer and more efficient—every single day, not just at audit time.
We prepare for an audit, pass it, and everybody celebrates. However, the real value lies in doing this every day, right? If you follow the system every day and view it as an integral part of your day-to-day operations, that's where the magic happens.
I'll use one example: So earlier in my career, I worked with the contractor world. That was our department, where we worked on significant projects. And I've always said to our contractors, I'd rather spend time with you upfront before the construction starts, before the project begins: to give you an orientation, to provide you with all the information, rather than you having a major incident later on and we stop work for two months because you don't have your safety act together, but spend that time upfront to invest some time to have a plan in place to manage risk. This applies not only to construction jobs but also to other areas of work.
When it comes to technology, you know, I don't know, maybe this is not a popular saying, but I'm excited about the potential that AI and other technologies, but one of the things, and this is in your playbook as well, is we have to remember we're working with humans, right? We have to humanize technology, and the old saying is 'Make it simple, right?' So, if the end user finds it complex, I'll give you another example. If we're rolling our job briefs to an iPad or a device and haven't taken the time to design it correctly, and if it's making the adaptation difficult, the process won't be as smooth. But if we design systems that are easy to use, easy to understand, and people start seeing the value,
Ergin Akbaş (17:41.09)
Picture a pencil: the sharp end represents frontline workers—that’s where the real work and risks are. If you don’t design systems with their input, you’ll never achieve true adoption or impact.
Hear from them; if we don't get their input, and if you're designing systems, it won't be easy to sell it back to them. However, if you obtain their input upfront, when we are rolling out different AI programs and AI software platforms, it's essential to consult with the field.
Mousa Yassin (19:52.6)
They're always trying to dictate the product in a way that fits with the management teams. And they're not spending enough time thinking about the life of a frontline worker because they're trying to control their reality, right? They're trying to control how they run their operation. They want to ensure they meet their compliance standards. And it's interesting to reflect on that. I see how naturally we're trying to be user-centric, and we're always naturally pulled towards what management teams want the product to do. So we end up being stuck in that.
Ergin Akbaş (24:03.51)
From a one-grid management system that aligns with the ISO standard, we require different levels of competence at variouanizational levels, starting with fielduser-centric, you're a l're a substation employee, if you're a gas employee, you have different training matrices that assigns work to them, even for the office employees and leadership and EHS staff.
And again, when they audit us, they review this in detail and then request a sampling of records. Another interesting aspect is that the standard will be, 'Okay, you're doing the training, but prove to me that it's effective.' If you're training people on lockout, tagout, and switching, and we're reviewing some of your incident data.
We utilize role-specific training matrices for every level, from field technicians to executives, and auditors require proof of training effectiveness, not just completion. We measure outcomes post-training to ensure competence.
Ergin Akbaş (26:26.47)
Through our Management of Change (MOC) process and monthly “Innovation Calls,” technicians submit safety improvement ideas. Leadership reviews them, and if they enhance safety, we implement them. This empowers employees and fuels continual improvement.
So I'll start with the renewables: we have an MOC process where we encourage all of our technicians to be able to go in and if they found an improvement while they're working, put that through an MOC process, it goes to leadership and leadership, they either nod yes or no, if they say no because they have additional questions, they go back, they make the tweaks and most of the time, if it's betterment of the safety, it's not questioned, right? It goes back to leadership. And I am proud to share that, right? So, that's it, and then every month, we bring the entire workforce together on a call to review the three incidents and three CIFs we had, and let's discuss those.
Networks are more complex, as we have customer service, gas, electricity, and hydro. So we have eight different groups. We refer to them as the skilled safety panels. These panels comprise management, the union, and representatives from across four states. So, if you can foresee what's happening there, we are collecting input, as we have representatives from different areas of the business to provide their perspectives. And then if you're rolling out something, they take it back to their teams and share it with the rest of the team at the local level. Because if we wanted to be certified, we needed to build a tool for us to fulfill the consultation participation portion of the requirements.
Mousa Yassin (29:20.25)
It's all about humans. However, the interesting thing is that you can simplify work activities, reduce wasted time, and help them run their job more efficiently. When you understand people better, offer more personalized journeys, and implement risk-based journeys, we can explore these topics further. We could have a separate session where we delve into different systems and discuss them in more detail. I know you speak about compliance versus risk-based safety. Could you share a few things about what that means to you and offer some advice for others in this regard?
Compliance vs. Risk-Based Thinking
Ergin Akbaş (29:57.258)
Yeah, absolutely. One of the sayings that I continually use is that compliance is the floor and risk is the ceiling. And really, we need to break through that ceiling. We set up our system using various tools. And you're right, we can spend another episode on that alone.
We identified all our legal obligations, not only at the EHS level, but also across different parts of the organization. We also have tools to ensure that we are following these compliance items. But if we set that aside and start thinking risk-based, which ties into what you just discussed, right? So, making it easy for the end user.
I'll use one example: Imagine if we had a tool that we spent a lot of time building.
Job hazard analysis in the background, right? In an environment, it's not after an incident, right? We're building this in an environment where we have the time, and we have been able to conduct interviews with employees. And then there's nothing hanging over their head to say, if I say the wrong thing, somebody is going to get in trouble, especially if it happens after an incident, right? Once we build those, we can link them to a job brief in the field. So when you're filling the job brief or if you're talking to AI or if you have the iPads or auto-populates, it's going to say, if you are changing a poll, at minimum, these are the hazards that you're going to be. Did you account for traffic? Did you call dig safe? From the end-user perspective, our people are not coming to work to get hurt or have an incident. But if you give them the right tool, and quite honestly, AI is not gonna get everything right either, right?
Ergin Akbaş & Mousa Yassin (33:46.05)
We’ve piloted apps that coach supervisors through pre-task checks—auto-populating hazards based on weather, task, and location. Early tests indicate strong engagement, as supervisors continued using the tool weeks after the pilot concluded.
Mousa Yassin (33:46.058)
If you're performing a medical operation and take a step back to review your pre-task checks — what you do before the operation — your likelihood of having an issue during the operation reduces by 80%. So, we've adopted that within construction, where we instruct people to perform their pre-task checks. Now, with AI, not only can you take a picture of it, but you can also record your voice, and you can see the engagement of the group, as well as summarize what the person has said. You can just give them feedback and say: “Great job, Ergen, you covered one, two, three, four. There's one more thing that you may want to consider”, and so on. We've conducted these pilots with some customers. So, customers who said, 'Okay, we've trained people; let's go deeper into the frontline.' We've created prototypes and tested them. There have been some interesting developments, which is why we believe in this. We think it's the future, where these apps adapt to the user, enabling you to understand the supervisor, their background, and their competence.
We wanted to do three sessions at specific sites, and it always happens. And then the users know: let's say you have four different supervisors, and one of them is doing a pre-work activity. In most cases, the supervisor simply continues to use the app themselves several times afterward, and they'd be engaged, wondering why this kind of initiative died out. Because the supervisor is also visible in the organization, you know, and suddenly the supervisor considers themselves part of management.
Mousa Yassin (39:30.444)
Yes, what's going to happen in safety is a lot; we're going to see a lot more change than we can imagine. I feel that in my heart, as I learn more, as I've seen different tools, we can talk about them in other situations, but as I know what's happening, just by being on X, just by being on X and seeing the different tools and the different technologies that are coming up. We're working together as a team.
Where everything we're gonna invest in and build now, I feel like is gonna change very quickly, as well as it's gonna get much better. It's like we're in a wave of change, and it's interesting to keep taking a step back and probably not trying to overdo things, but just trying to learn what's out there because...
We'll eventually settle into a new norm. Of course, change is always a constant, but we're in the midst of a vast change, simply because we're moving to a hyper-personalized, user-focused, and much more. Instead of building a safety learning matrix with weighty content, I should seek recommendations for the best understanding of my risks, as well as the most effective content that's measured against other content, mapped, and matched.
Ergin Akbaş (41:46.728)
You know, at least the way that we set up our system is that, okay, if there is a change occurring, that's gonna potentially hurt somebody or impact somebody. We need to manage it methodically, which means identifying the stakeholders and understanding who it will affect. Do they have the desire to change? Because, you know, you said this, right? Change is the only constant, but if the change is not managed correctly,
The sustainability of the change or the reinforcement of the change is likely to falter. The change will be rolled out two months later. If we don't reinforce that, if we don't tell people what's in it for them, we'll revert to old ways, because we're human and that's our comfort zone, and that's what we're likely to do.
Mousa Yassin (44:01.006)
Absolutely. I love that you said that. Being on the technology product side, we always feel like we're running, but the reality is that you have to slow down and move at the pace of what keeps people safe and how management can be done. I love that you shared that. Thank you. It's always a good reminder because it's easy to get lost in the volume of change. Yeah, Ergen, one last thing for me. I know you're super passionate about HOP and safety culture. There are a things you can share there. And then I'd love to hear what sort of advice you'd have for people, particularly in the space you operate in, which is management systems.
Ergin Akbaş (44:44.928)
Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) principles—like “Context drives behavior” and “Learning is essential”—drive our Learning Team investigations. We gather multi-stakeholder input, allow “soak time,” then collaborate on systemic improvements instead of blaming individuals.
Error-like situations are predictable. Context drives behavior. Learning is essential. And how to respond to failure matters. So what does this mean? Again, when I speak with people, I say that we need to move away from the term' safety culture.'
And what I mean by that is the company's culture. We have to look at that bigger picture, and HOP fits in nicely. Nobody comes to work to do a bad job. You work up this morning, you say, Hey, I'm gonna go and hurt myself. Nobody does that intentionally. But if we think about the HOP perspective,
It's essentially about building resilient systems to make employees more successful in the end and so, putting more controls in place and listening to the employees., At AvantGrid, one of the things we have done is significantly change our incident investigation method, where, in some cases, we have adopted learning teams. And what learning teams are?
Ergin Akbaş (46:55.99)
Do you have different stakeholders on that call, and day one, you sit down without trying to solve anything; everybody just gives their input, right? They say, okay, this is what happened, these are the facts, this is how I saw it would happen. In complex incidents, multiple stakeholders are often involved.
So we spend, yeah, two, three hours. And then we send everybody home, and then we have what's called soak time. And they come tomorrow and say, 'Well, by the way, I thought about this, but I forgot to mention that these things also happened.' After that, a calibration process occurs, and we proceed to solving. We say, okay, what can we do?
And we don't look for root causes, right? The old investigation method looks at one root cause and then moves on. It's typically a matter of communication or lack of awareness, which, from the management system perspective, we need to move away from and look at how the systems can help employees be safer. This also applies to the environmental side. So, if there's a significant spill, you can utilize this learning team methodology.
However, the message here is that it's about culture and humanizing safety. I was reviewing your playbook, which discusses the concept of psychological safety. We have some work going on there. When people are hurt, and there is no punishment attached to it, and we have a culture of learning and improvement, it helps our...
To ensure our workforce is safe and to create a better work environment.
Mousa Yassin (48:49.998)
Ergen, honestly, it's been great talking to you. We only touched on a few things that I was leaning towards going deeper into, but I knew we were limited on time. But hopefully we'll schedule something, maybe when we see each other in person at some point. But yeah, really appreciate you joining.
Mousa Yassin (49:13.422)
I love your angle of experience. I haven't spoken to someone with your particular experience and your view on systems before. So, thank you so much for sharing. Many people will benefit from this. And yeah, if you have any closing statements, please feel free to share.
Ergin Akbaş (50:29.928)
“You don’t rise to the level of your goals; you fall to the level of your systems.”
Strong, resilient systems protect people, empower culture, and sustain performance—no matter who’s in the chair.
You know, I had one last story, most recently. This is related to my son. He came home and said that every six seconds, the size of a soccer field or a football field of the forest is being taken away. I had to look it up. That seems pretty high. And I looked it up, and it's factual.
So, why am I mentioning this? It's because if a 10-year-old can come home and share that kind of information, and they want to do something about it, you know, they want to be more responsible from a sustainability perspective. We, as the safety leaders, have the responsibility not only to empower our current customers, current workforce, but future like my son who's coming home with a fact like that and plant the seed with them to carry into the future to make the world a better place from an environmental perspective and a safer perspective as well. Same thing with my six-year-old. She came home one day and they asked me: 'What does Daddy do at work?' And she said, my daddy makes sure that people don't get zapped. So if a five-year-old or a six-year-old has that idea, and it's not about me, right? It's about whether they have these plants seeded in their heads for the future. We, as safety professionals, have the responsibility to continue sharing that message, not giving up.
And one of the things I want to conclude with is that, as humans, we manage risk every day. I'm not sure if you drove to your office today or took the train or something else. If you were driving, you're managing risk every day. However, as leaders, we have the opportunity and the responsibility to act proactively and systematically.
Therefore, as EHS leaders, we must develop systems that are resilient in the face of change. We discussed change, human-centered design, and how it supports people in being ready for the challenges ahead, including things like AI and other difficulties. As humans, we manage risk every day, but as leaders, we have the opportunity and the responsibility to do so proactively, systematically, and with purpose. So proactive, systemic, and with purpose. And if we can achieve those, you know, one last quote, which, you know, I was having coffee with my wife yesterday, and then she's like, why don't you use this one? You don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems.
So let's build the greater ones together. Let's put together greater systems that are, it's not about the goals, the goals we can achieve, and then forget about them. However, if the systems are in place, those systems will remain in place, even if we win the lottery or leave our position, to achieve more and more goals.
Ergin Akbaş (54:29.226)
Mousa, thank you again so much. I appreciate the opportunity. It was nice to meet you in person, and I look forward to doing this again.
Mousa Yassin (54:53.39)
Let’s keep this relationship and learning more from each other. Thank you so much, Ergen.